Looks like it was a good gig.. I nearly went myself, but only found out about it after I'd put all my clothes in the wash.

I could have turned up naked.. but I think it might have detracted from the performances.. ;)

> you know the gig's a good 'un when you get drunk girls on stage!

Well, I keep trying to encourage ant_girl to drink a bit more before going onstage with SBA.. but sadly she's got one of those professional ethics thingies..

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More Deathrock bashing?!Did some big Deathrocker spill your pint at WGT or sommink, Mr?!

I understand some of your points but its no different to any other "scene"...

As a big Deathrock scenster I must admit I sometimes take your comments a bit personally you know. I knew about the Artery gig, but being up all night at a party on Sat and being skint put paid to me going PLUS, even if M Mercer says these bands are "Deathrock" and tells people what to like, I dont always follow. I'm very knowledgable about music too, very discernig and and I LOVE music [*and* dressing up a bit, dancing and having fun.] There's not that many "Deathrockers" [by that I assume you mean those wearing the "uniform"] in the UK anyway....

[I think Siii, Section 25 and Artery are OK bands but I dont get too excited by their music personally and we never get requests for any of them at Dead and Buried.] Plus I dont think Siii became "Deathrock superstars"...they played Drop Dead and one or two other Deathrock parties in Europe, about 3 years ago. Maybe a couple of promoters got into them...thats it.

"Contemporary Deathrock" over the last few years purely has been a reaction against dull trad goth bands/80s cheese/EBM/synthpop etc. and yes, a "fashion". No one [bands, djs, promoters] ever claimed to shake the foundations of rock n roll or anything [as we know rock n roll is dead anyway - ask Lydon and Pop]. You're description, "a bit boistorus with a wacky images" is correct, why did you think the bands/music was anything else?! Still better that than the 100000 Sisters clone act or "ANOTHER band with ex FotN member" or VNV nation shite, "Steampunk" or fucking gothic metal, IMHO.

The fact is, most of the DR folks you saw at WGT were kids, trying to fit in with the cool fashion. It's ALWAYS been like that with teenagers, in fact there are many kids in europe who dress up like that and dont even know about the Gothic Pogo Party/Drop Dead etc nowadays....Its coz the fashion has caught on more than the bands.

There are always people *into* music and there are always people into fitting in, being part of a crowd [yes, even in the 80s there were people like that.] I bet even you were a teenager once, I know I was....The Deathrock scene is no worse for this than any other, including the "post punk/no wave" [or whatever] scene. You think those girls in your pics "were knowlegdeable about music, discerning or there for the bands"?! No, they were there coz its the Dice club, it's cool its been in the NME and its in Shoreditch. They were getting drunk, having fun. Nowt wrong with that. It's just the same as the "shalow" or "dumb" Deathrockers. The "new wave" bands are no different to any scene, copying each other and fitting in, their fans all looking the same etc...Some of thes bands/clubs are good, some are not so good.

As for the S Bitches. Well, you obviously dont like them and some germans do [same with Cauda Pavonis.] I think the WGT orgainsiers did a poor job of band selections this year [across the board] and there's plenty of good Deathrock and related bands that they could have put on - check out the Misfest Line up for example, and although the "DR scene" may not be as "vibrant" as two years ago, there's still a few things going on [Fangs on Fur a good example and a new Bloody Dead and Sexy album on the horizon] and funnily enough in the UK DaB is the busiest its been for ages, Ghoul Garden in Nottingham is doing very well and we have the Misfest gig and Zombina has just put on a Horrorpunk all dayer up North...

There's good and bad music, simple as that. "Scenes" are generally for youngsters [not you or me then] to fit into and have fun with. I reckon youre juts turning into a grumpy old man, mate..

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I dunno, actually Nik.

Being really sad for a minute, Unc Nem's review (omitting intro and outro) is 326 words long.

50 Words describe Artery's performance (good to see 'em back by the way, back in '85 I thought we'd lost 'em forever. Like Simon Hinkler's lost his hair forever)

94 words describe drunk girls in the audience.

Leaving a mighty 182 words to slag off deathrockers.

Deathrock wins by default.

I think Old Nem's actually using a really subtle form of subliminal deathrock promotion. So subliminal that I don't think even he's realised it yet.....

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Points of order: my pokes and prods at deathrock are not directed at anyone personally. And I'm not slagging off deathrockers. Well, not any more than they deserve. Frankly, anyone who thinks the Scary Bitches are as good as it gets is in severe need of re-education if you ask me.

I do, however, regard deathrock rather like a disappointed parent regards an underachieving child.

Deathrock was effectively introduced to the UK in 2002 via an article in issue 10 of Meltdown Magazine. The article was written by blu_muse, then editor of the California-based webzine StarVox [the site should still exist, but it seems to be down at present]. She had covered the re-emergence of deathrock in the USA in her own zine a short time previously.

The person who suggested to Meltdown's editor, natashameltdown, that Blu should write an overview of deathrock for the UK was a London-based StarVox writer: me.

That Meltdown article had a lot to do with the emergence of Dead & Buried and the UK deathrock scene that grew up shortly afterwards. In fact, going by what caveynik himself has said, the article was the principal inspiration that pointed him down the deathrock path in the first place. I dare say deathrock would have filtered in somehow even without that article, but in many ways issue 10 of Meltdown was the Ground Zero of all that happened afterwards. It really did kick things off.

But, perhaps foolishly, this does mean that I feel a certain proprietary interest in deathrock, because I was in at the beginning. I want it to do well: I want it to be strong and vibrant and creative and cool. I don't want it to be just another dress-up-and-party scene with a musical soundtrack of half-arsed novelty bands. If I see this happening then I'm going to call deathrock out on it. If this makes me an awkward old bugger, then that's a hat I'll gladly wear - at a jaunty angle, too.

I'm glad D&B is doing well - but it must be noted that the club's current venue is the smallest it's had, so its packed-out-ness is somewhat relative. At the risk of causing embarrassment, I must also point out that the Scary Bitches - in my view the symbol of all that is wrong with deathrock these days - have been championed by Dead & Buried. Look at the band's MySpace page and you'll see a Dead & Buried flyer on which the Scary Bitches are mentioned in BIG LETTERING. Look at the Scary Bitches' website and you'll see them featured on a Dead & Buried compilation CD. Why did you do it, Nik? Why?? Why?! What happened to being 'discerning'?

Deathrock in 2009 is definitely not the way I thought it was going to be in 2002. It's not even the way I thought it was going to be in 2004, when I wrote a follow-up article to Blu's original deathrock piece in Meltdown magazine. I was reading that article today, as it happens, thinking to myself that I certainly couldn't write it as things stand now.

So, I make no secret of the fact that I'm disappointed. Of course, I realise that what I think doesn't matter: if the present-day deathrockers are having fun, it's not for me to be the spectre at the feast. If gormless novelty bands really are the future for deathrock, it's not for me to complain. I'm not the quality control officer for the deathrock scene, although sometimes I think someone should be.

But if I really was deathrock's frustrated parent, I'd be sending it to bed without any supper until it pulled its socks up!

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I totally agree with your points about Scary Bitches. A waste of time and a waste of space, one of the reasons that I decided to flee the Felsenkeller to avoid them at WGT. You really should have done the same.

I also would state that I wouldn't particularly describe myself as a deathrocker. I've considered myself a punk since I was a monkey booted 11 year old in a Harrington. Long time ago, now, but pictures do exist of my "Oi Oi for England" phase. Luckily nobody need ever find them. I spent a lot of my teens listening to punk, post punk, gothic punk and goth. Oh, and Motörhead.

I don't remember when I first heard the term deathrock, but I'm pretty sure it was before I bought the house where I'm currently sitting, so that would be pre-2001, and it was in the context of an American writer (I forget who) describing Rudimentary Peni as a British deathrock band. As a Peni fan, I was intrigued to hear of a description of them other than that of "anarcho", so I decided to investigate DR further. Some of the bands I was already familiar with (perusing my school exercise book from 1986, it has a large 45 Grave logo on the front), some were new to me, some were great, and some were derivative of things I'd heard before. It was definitely interesting.

But then, somebody a lot smarter than me once said "nothing is invented, only remembered." Definitely true of music, though probably not of cutting edge technology. I digress.

The Meltdown article was good, though a little superficial, but to be fair one can't expect too much from 3 pages. It was good to see, though.

Did the whole DR scene in the UK hinge on it?

I'm not sure, to be honest, because it was more than just a case of exhuming the corpse of the Batcave, and injecting it with a bit of vitality. It was giving the UK Goth scene a good (and much needed) kick up the arse, and it reminded me why I was into this stuff back in my teens,

I certainly wasn't listening to a derivative-of-whatever-we-called-dance-music in 1986, and believing that was enough, mixed with a bit of Rammstein, some New Romantic and 80's cheese, and the same "80's Goff Faves Mix CD" setlist played in a slightly different order once a week, which a lot of the UK goth clubs I'd ended up frequenting had become, particularly in the Midlands.

Finally making the trip to D&B in 2004 was a bloody revelation, which is why it's one of the very few UK clubs that I frequent, nearly 5 years later.

As the closest thing to what I consider to be the spirit of punk rock....
(I just don't get these "wave" electro bands, and the half-arsed bratty college kids playing watered down new wave just don't convince me at all. I hear and see some of them and think Republica - the very thought makes me shudder.)
....I want to see deathrock do well too.

However, I think you've made your point about some of the scenesters that have attached themselves to deathrock (imagine a bratty teen voice saying "I'm norra goff, I'm a deffrokkah"). All "scenes" have their hangers on, and a lot of them swan around like they invented the whole bloody movement, only to bugger off when something more "happening" comes along. But to beat all deathrockers with the stick of the Scary Bitches is like laughing at all punks because of Jilted John. Or laughing at all metalheads because of Bad News.

Unfortunately, there will always be novelty acts, whether they're put there to make money from those gullible enough to buy into it, or to make some slightly pisstaking observation at somebody else's expense. I really don't understand Scary Bitches popularity, but I'm quite happy to ignore and avoid them. Eventually, I'm sure they'll go away.

If Nik played them at D&B, or incorporated them onto a CD, then I'm sure he's allowed a small misdemeanor. He's turned me onto a lot of good stuff, and put some damn good bands on to boot. Who else put Scarlet's Remains, Bloody Dead & Sexy & Cinema Strange on in London?

I think for every Scary Bitches, you'll find a Fangs on Fur, a Los Carniceros Del Norte, a Scarlet's Remains, a Cemetery Girlz. Bands who are serious, and do it well.

I'd recommend ignoring a problem child's more dubious friends, and looking at the good in the child. ;-D

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"But to beat all deathrockers with the stick of the Scary Bitches is like laughing at all punks because of Jilted John. Or laughing at all metalheads because of Bad News."

I love Jilted John! Such fun! ;-)

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I thought Jilted John was pretty good, too. And he wasn't just a joke artist - he really did articulate that petulant anger of a screwed up teen who's lost out in a relationship. Or maybe that was just my own screwed-up teen self identifying with him...

I actually like humour in music when it's done well. I'm a fan of Frank Zappa. I have three (count 'em, three) albums by the Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band. In the interview I did with Spit Like This we talk about humour in music, with the general view being that it's a Good Thing. I put one-liners, humourous asides, and Spinal Tap quotes into my reviews all the time (and, by and large, no bugger ever notices).

But 'humour' covers a multitude of sins - all the way from Bill Hicks to Roy Chubby Brown. You've got to be careful out there!

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Point taken about the cd - after six years of running a monthly event I'd forgotten about that! So busy....and forgetful in my old age.

Well, I do have a sense of humour and I actually like "Bad Hair Day" [I personally like a lot of humour in music] and I don't despise the band like you, plus at the time, trying to find a UK band to go on a cd that wasnt metal or EBM was quite difficult. Just trying to "encourage" the UK side of things I guess. Pardon me for my naievity..and indeed I was naive in those days - thinking that other Goth DJs in the UK etc had read the Starvox article and had a clue - how wrong I was!

Yes DaB is at it's smallest venue, but still 6 six years is pretty good and I'd rather have a small venue full than a big one half empty. And DaB has a great reputataion across the globe; not bad for *one man and his enthusiasm*, with no backing from others [gangsters, big business etc] apart from a few loyal friends. Besides, *everyone* is a DJ now in London and *everyone* has their own small "scene", there's much more choice than a few years ago. DaB is doing well considering and it's still fun! You should come along sometime, and hear some good music...

So, thanks for introducing DR to the UK. You encourged someone to write about it, I did something in the real world. And it will continue as long as I enjoy it and people turn up....in fact it will probably continue if only 2-3 people turn up!

What's next?

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Besides I bet not all the bands you put on in the 90's were 100% "cool"....There must be at least one or two crud ones... However I'm not gonna trail the web to find out, coz I'm not that bothered.

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Oh, yes, I look back at some of my gigs and wonder, 'What was I thinking? Why did I book them?'

I never put on a band I thought was completely crap, but sometimes I couldn't get my first-choice band, or sometimes even my second-choice band. There were a few gigs where I had to fall back on whatever bands would say yes, becacause the bands I really wanted had said no - so the Quality Assurance standards did wobble a bit at times. But the first thing you learn as a promoter is how little control you have over...well, anything, really.

However, I did turn plenty of bands down for Quality Assurance reasons. I was offered 13 Candles twice, and said no both times. On the second occasion I rather tactlessly described them to their record label as a 'joke band'. Boy, did the shit hit the fan over that! I think 13 Candles still blame me to this day for killing their glittering music biz career!

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There's three bands that I really regret putting on [wont mention any names]. Still, not something to worry about at the mo, as after August 1st I wont be putting any more on unless some cash magically comes my way..You know how it is.

I guess DR has been shaped in recent years pretty much by the GPP [thats were the "uniform" started, mostly] and Drop Dead and the small clubs/parties around europe, and some input from some record labels and WGT. The music at most DR clubs is actually quite varied [bit more nowadays, due to decrease in new bands, and discovering old ones is becoming harder!]

I'm sorry to hear that it hasnt turned out how you would have liked, and one band "half-involved" has, it seems, casued you to become so criticital about things overall...

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Not that it matters, but I don't think we're deathrock either.
These fine distinctions between genres and sub-genres have always been irrelevant to me, and get more so the older I get - you either like the song, or you don't. Simple as that. :)

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Regarding the term "death rock"-back in the 80s in the US, this was the term for what is now called goths. I'm sure Patricia Morrison (in Gun Club at the time) was called this for her "Morticia" look.

And, regarding Neil Gaiman/Amanda Palmer: Neil has 3 children, 2 of whom are adults living away from home (Mike works for Google in California and Holly is a photographer in London) and has been divorced from his (now ex) wife for about a year. The Neil/Amanda pairing started a few months ago, though they were friends before this.

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Regarding the term "death rock"-back in the 80s in the US, this was the term for what is now called goths

Well, yes, the D-word is indeed originally an 80s-vintage term from the USA, and it was applied to goths in general. I recall Porl King of Rosetta Stone remarking in an interview round about 1995 that goth was called death rock (two words) in the USA - the inference being that it wasn't a separate strand, it was just another catch-all term for the goth scene in general.

But the word was unfamiliar in any context in the UK until the early 21st century, by which time it had come to mean the 'Batcave' strand of old-skool goth in particular...and it had become one word.

I've discovered that bits of StarVox are up, even if the front page is down. That's quite a relief - there's a lot of my painstaking one-finger typing archived there! But this does mean I can link to the pertinent bits...

Here's a 2001 article on deathrock - a short intro about the 80s scene (note that - paradoxically - it's protrayed as mainly a UK thing) and then some words about the latter-day version, which was just starting to kick off at the time. Then it goes into a Komnmunity FK interview, which has some interesting tales from the early days.

And here's a bigger article from 2002 which gives an overview of the state of things in deathrock circles at that time. This was when the revived deathrock scene was just starting to get wider recognition, after brewing up in the Los Angeles area through the late 90s. Much of that article seems rather dated now - many things have changed since 2002, not least the club scene. Look at the list of UK clubs - Exile, Assimilation, and Dark Trix. Where are they now? Dead & Buried hadn't been invented at the time!

The Meltdown magazine piece of 2002 followed shortly afterwards, and was the first bit of real coverage of deathrock specifically in the UK - although obviously the stuff on the web had been available beforehand. But the Meldown article did kick it all off in the UK to a great extent. It's interesting that a print magazine could have such an impact back then. I wonder if that would happen now? Has any great sub-cultural sea-change occurred in more recent years because of an article in, say, Devolution magazine? I doubt it....

Incidentally, I see from the StarVox archives that I've been giving the Scary Bitches bad reviews for quite a few years now - dating back to a long time before they became adopted by the deathrock scene. This proves two things:

(a) I'm consistent.

(b) Nobody ever listens to a word I say!

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I know nothing about death rock - which is probably just as well.
I have however, in my recent tape 'venture' come across one track from way back by Artery - which seems to be called Diseased - or something similar. I didn't know about the Mish-link.
Other things I have found out while Wiki-ing the various bands I've had stored away are that Annabella Lwin went to the Sylvia Young School - which kind of puts a different slant on how she came to fame - as she obviously had designs of that ilk already.
And George from Action Pact seems to have gone to the same junior school as my hubby and Mick Mercer - though years apart. She now seems to be a yoga teacher.
Oh and that looks just like my ex behind tipsy-lady-in-red - but is probably someone far younger. I forget how middle-aged I've become.
There, that all changed the subject.

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